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The Voice of Libby, Lincoln County,

Montana, and AMERICA

Is it safe

Mike Crill Guest May 29, 2009 10:52 PM	May be,(it is) a place for others from out of town to be exposed when coming to visit a place and town that still continues to expose to kill more from not informing them of the truth/risks of stirring up ANY dust and inhaling/swallowing deadly Tremolite asbestos fibers.Does it really matter??? Well, if you care about exposure to others it does.Who will water the road 24/7 to control dust??? I mean, asbestos from autos and public disturbance which we all know does occur in Libby...everyday.Again.. if you care...Is it worth the risk??? Is it better safe than sorry?exposed? Is it a priority to inform,warn and protect all people from something that is known to kill you?(Supreme Court Rule it is the DUTY of the State and Govt.)Why has Libby continued to expose more people since 1999??? When will this continued deadly exposure END??? How many MORE men,women and children AND Grand children must suffer TILL DEATH from Libby air that is deadly today and will ALWAYS BE DEADLY.Who will stop the killing??? Who cares huh??? The Children matter and I care.Hi Phillip.Not Guilty is Guilty as we know it...Shame what we leave to our kids huh??? I tried..
hereinlibby Guest May 30, 2009 12:37 PM	Mike - You did the best you could. Thanks for the help. It was a good idea and for the best that you left Libby. The whole town is out of sync with your way of thinking. For the rest of us - we have a Riverside park to design. Lets get cracking.
Mike Crill Guest Jun 01, 2009 12:07 PM	Yah, who cares about exposure to more people..More people to expose to suffer and die like the rest.I want you all to have Libby. I really do but why kill more people? Why ignor them? It IS amazing how many people like you feel life must go on in Libby.For the next 10 to 40 years when them folks are told why they are sick and dying from not telling the truth.Why not end this cycle of lies and death.Are you all that frickin morbid to watch so many suffer and die and know why, yet care less about those new families.What is wrong with you people.How do you all see this as right? I know it is easier to ignore but human life is the price paid.I know I have done my best, sure wish all of you could of stood behind me or with me but as long as you all know I tried more than most...It is you who you have to live with and it is different now because we/you all know the truth and no one cares...enough to stop it.This is the difference in me and you.You are Libby I am PEOPLE and in the end who suffers?? Who cares huh? Yah I know a whole town don't care.Like opening the doors to murder is what Libby and you are doing because none of you are warning anyone let alone telling the whole truth that Libby is not safe to anything that breaths.Unreal!!!! Your all welcome....
xcav8 9 posts Jun 08, 2009 9:26 AM	Mike, Bob, and Philip; (and any other interested parties) I have sent an email to Ms. Rebecca Thomas requesting information on exactly the issue you are discussing. Let me tell you some of what I know about the Riverfront Park, Industrial Park, OU-1,2 and 4, Export Plant site. The main issue I asked Ms. Thomas to explain involves 1200 holes that were augered in that site for the purpose of testing in the Fall of 2007. These 1200 holes were dug through the existing cap, the existing remedy that EPA paid so much money to put in place, and brought contamination to the surface over the entire site. My point is that this testing compromised everything EPA had done to date on OU-1. They have not eliminated the pathways to exposure at that site, and will not unless they address this issue of cross contamination created by these holes. EPA has even issued orders to the City requesting that we cease weed control efforts, specifically weed whacking, until the site is "clean". There is movement afoot to make that 17 acres a public park. All of it. Bob seems to be on that bandwagon. It seems to be driven by people who live outside the City limits. These people will have no financial stake in the improvements to the Park. They will also avoid liability for the questions that will arise if we allow EPA to perform a superficial cleanup that does not eliminate pathways to exposure. This information never hits the news, it is effectively squelched. But I would ask each of you to explain how you think the City of Libby should address this issue before we make the area a Park that invites families to play in this junk. Thanks, DC Last Edited on 10-Jun-2009 9:05 AM
Mike Crill Guest Jun 08, 2009 1:09 PM	Hi DC.How's political life treating you? I ain't gonna say much not much needs to be said but again,could you ask Mayor Roll and council to address the issue of human exposure FIRST!!! Prior to ANYTHING being done that involves the public mainly families and outsiders and anyone else not exposed to Tremolite.All this activity at the Port Auth. which is City IS creating exposure and contamination with NO re guards to the health and safety of people.My point is it is wrong to not warn and inform all public to protect the public from something that kills you. Oh..you all know...you've heard my rant before and damn, here I am again. Good to say hi DC and that your keeping it right as many depend on you...Take care my friend.Anything the City can do against Grace since it also was the City and County that got screwed???How bout Civil?? Keep in mind that all in Libby must be considered unsafe until it is shown/proven safe. and tell EPA Cirian to stop lieing to the public that the air is clean ya all can breathe deep.Why are you DC allowing this BS...Mayor and City and County needs... put another cap on the entire site with no future digging...
xcav8 10 posts Jun 10, 2009 9:03 AM	Mike and all; First, let me clear up the fact that the Stimson property is under the control of the Port Authority, I think. It may even be owned by KRDC which has no affiliation with any government agency. EPA has regulatory authority on the site. Second, we are addressing the issue of continuing human exposures in Libby. This is a huge issue if OU-1 is to be a public park. I have requested EPA state their case in writing. There is still a problem with the ROD coming at this site with a primarily "qualitative" risk assessment rather than "quantitative". Dr. Black, as County Health Officer, has requested that EPA have a toxicologist on board. They are going to announce that Dave Barry, a toxicologist from El Dorado Hills, CA, has been hired. Here are my concerns with qualitative v quantitative as best I can describe. You walk into a doctors office. You have a fever of 105 degrees, a blinding headache, your pulse is weak and thready, and your blood pressure is dropping. If the doctor checks all of these statistics, he will have a quantitative, (real numbers to work with), assessment of your health. He may be able to save your life. If the doctor is on his way to Bermuda and wants to give you a qualitative assessment, he tells you you look fine. Funeral is on Monday. EPA is not addrssing your concerns with their work in Libby. We will continue to pay for their dysfunction in perpetuity. What that looks like is where we differ. I believe EPA is going to push for a ROD, leave town, and the homeowners are going to pay O&M measures forever. A smart guy put it this way. EPA has spent $180 million cleaning 1000 homes. EPA says that demolition is way too expensive. How many homes, where EPA left residual contamination, will eventually face demolition. Especially the homes most likely to have VAI in their attics, homes built in the fifties and sixties. Every single one of these sixty and seventy year old homes will eventually go away, and quite soon. Who pays for the cleanup then? I don't have the luxury of taking your hard view on the toxicity of this material. You may be right, you certainly have been right on point in the past. But, until we have toxicity numbers, the jury is still out. I fault EPA for not starting the studies when Gordon brought it up years ago. I also see this as regulatory failure, especially now that Grace has gotten through the trial with acquitals. EPA has dropped the ball in Libby. See ya later, DC
Diana Martin Guest Jun 17, 2009 3:32 PM	I'm a city resident and business owner. I would like to see a park and area for residents and tourists alike that could be useful and beautify Libby. Everyone I've talked to that lives in town wants to see a park there. Libby has had so many set backs to its economy, it's a wonder it's not a ghost town. I've lived here for 4 years, and would love to see it become a family place where young people can grow up and actually stay here because they have job opportunities here and they know their family is safe here. I don't know a lot about the asbestos issue, but I don't feel in any current danger here. In fact, I don't think I've talked to anyone here that does feel that it's dangerous to live here. I agree if we have a park there we need to know that it is safe. It seems to me since it used to be an export plant that it ought to be one place that is thoroughly cleaned up regardless. I personally think Libby needs to look nicer if it is going to attract future residents and we need to have facts to let people know the place is clean & safe. There are cities everywhere that have insulation & other asbestos problems, so I don't expect it to all go away, but people that visit think it's not safe to walk down the street. That's a pitiful assessment. I would like to know the facts about how much concentration of asbestos it takes to be harmful and how long someone would have to be exposed to it to be affected by it. We can all get scared and blow it out of proportion or we can blow it off & nothing will be done. Either way i think Libby will suffer. If we can educate ourselves, and the average citizen here, we can recover from this together. Wouldn't it be nice to have a beautiful green SAFE park right there where I have heard was maybe the worst concentration in Libby! What a good message to say that we're not going to give up. To represent our RECOVERY from a very hard, sorrowful time for Libby. I am looking forward to all your responses and information on all facts that you have.
Mike Crill Guest Jun 17, 2009 8:31 PM	DC and Phillip and anyone really. Please set the record straight for Ms. Martin about the dangers of breathing Libby air. Tell this woman the truth.THE WHOLE TRUTH.Please.Now with a Health Emergency declared Libby will stop killing more people and tell the truth that Libby is not safe to anything that breaths.Children have to matter and you all know it.DC, with you on the City Council I do believe it is the duty of the City/County/State to inform, warn and protect the citizens of Libby/Montana.This is not being done since 1999 when Libby began selling as safe.NOW...will a freeze be put on any more moveing to Libby AND NOW the issue of all the trees being full of Tremolite,they will have to be a issue to resolve not to mention tearing all the old homes down in Libby. What a WASTE of $160 Million.Who got all this money???Anyway, I got what I wanted with a HED which NOW tells the whole world Libby IS NOT SAFE TO ANYTHING THAT BREATHES. AMEN... The truth.Take care my friends.The trees HAVE to be a issue and then the River banks all the way to Bonners Ferry.And then the Rail road routes out of Libby and Troy.Why not move everyone,who will leave and put a fence around Libby.Would save a few hundred million and tons of lives...
hereinlibby Guest Jun 18, 2009 1:22 PM	Swings... I think we need swings. And a soccer field. Its becoming one of the most participated sports now days. I know this one might be hard , but how about a fishing pier into the river. We could get federal funding for it since it would be ADA compliant. I know we all have suggestions - just a few ideas.
xcav8 11 posts Jun 18, 2009 2:21 PM	Hi All; This forum was created to discuss the matters of developing a Park at OU-1, the former Industrial Park. The City of Libby has released a preliminary design for a Park at this site and is working on multiple fronts to make it happen. Bob, there is a fishing pier in the proposal. Lincoln County recently developed soccer fields at J. Neils Park and the City wants to see them fully utilized. Thus, there are no plans for them at the Riverfront. The City has proposed roughly 14 of the 17 acres at the site be developed for parkland. The rest would be taken up with City Service Road, access to many properties downstream, and a commercial development buffering and screening the railroad tracks from the Park. Mike and I are probably the only people commenting on this site who were here when the Industrial Park was a thriving business incubator. The City had rental income from numerous business ventures at this site, it was the gemstone of our economic development efforts in Libby in 1999. When EPA "cleaned" the site, they destroyed the Citys' railroad spur, truck scales, commercial power grid, 24,000 square feet of buildings, hundreds of mature trees along the riverbank, and our ability to generate income off of the site. They have never replaced our assets. They chased off our renters. They destroyed our economic development efforts. The owners of a similar former Grace site upstream, similar in size and scope of contamination, had all of their assets destroyed in the cleanup also. The recent trial detailed that they were paid a hefty sum for the assets they lost. I feel the City of Libby should receive a similar settlement, something over $2 million. That would go a long way toward developing a Park without having to pick the taxpayers pockets. WR Grace offered to buy this site from the City in 2000 for $2 million. Grace said they would develope it as a Park and maintain it as such. The City turned down the $2 million because EPA rep Paul Peronard said they would get a better deal from EPA. Where is that deal? The trial also detailed the actions of Jack Wolter. This Grace executive bought stock in the private ownership of the minesite through KDC for $600 in 1994. Grace bought that property back at the same time they were making offers to the City and the other private owners in 2000. Jack Wolters' return on his $600 investment after six years netted him $1.3 million. Where is the Citys' deal? We need the EPA to hear from folks like you. They are telling the City that they won't replace what they destroyed. That would mean that the costs of this Park would have to be borne on the backs of your neighbors. I find that notion reprehensible when Grace has already offered $2 million for this site, the owners of a similar site received a hefty settlement, and Jack Wolter even cashed in on the situation. Why is the City held to a different standard? Beyond all that, the EPA has yet to answer the continuing questions about safety of people using this site. Thanks for you comments, I hope to hear from more concerned citizens. Thanks for the forum, Philip. Sincerely, DC Orr Last Edited on 18-Jun-2009 2:35 PM
hereinlibby Guest Jun 19, 2009 1:46 PM	So... basically I'm getting everything I want..... Excellent. As long as you don't put a fence around Libby..... Im OK
Perry Winkle Guest Jun 21, 2009 9:47 AM	Shut the damn place down.Hasn't Libby killed enough people....Thousands.How the HELL can LIBBY be SOLD as safe NOW???? Can I sue if I buy anything in Libby because it is contaminated.All is contaminated until all is clean.Since 1999 when EPA came to Libby with their millions,NOTHING has been made safe because MORE of a contamination and EXPOSURE was and still is created by what they have done/not done. 10 years,160+ MILLION and not one human being protect BUT being lied to that Libby is safe.What about the lieing EPA telling Libby the air is CLEARER and to breathe deeply. Someone needs to criminally charge those who knowingly lie while more people continue to be expose to something that will kill them.I do hope some one goes to prison for this deadly ignorance because after 1999, this killing should of ended but it didn't and today, already...people ARE BEING DIAGNOSED with ASBESTOSIS from moving to Libby 5 years ago.Over 300 have moved to Libby since 1999 being told/sold Libby as safe.EPA needs gutted and criminal charges filed for murder because that is exactly what has continue since 1999...MURDER. Stay they hell away from Libby until and if it can be made safe.The trees must be or don't do anything but evacuate Libby and pay the people...ALL OF THEM on their way OUT OF TOWN...S This is what should of happened in 1999.Look who made all the millions since.I rest my case...GUILTY....
Diana Martin Guest Jun 27, 2009 8:08 PM	I think I'm going to do some research...
Mike Crill Guest Jun 27, 2009 10:37 PM	Please do Diana but do not listen to many in Libby who sold you Libby.They do not want to be sued...yet...When you are diagnosed...THEN.. you get to sue them all.Maybe by then murder charges will be the justice...we/I didn't get...ASK !!!, what IS safe in Libby??? Have EPA/Mayor/County/Health Dept,anyone in Libby and request it be put in writing.Then eMail me(asbestoskillnme@yahoo.com) or put on here what was said.I assure you it will be every interesting to say the least...if they say anything at all.There is enough info on this site also, myMeso with Wendi Lewis and AsbestosWatch with Paul Peters.A excellent start to learn and educate ALL to the TRUTH that Libby today and tomorrow and next year and beyond is not safe to live/breathe and raise a family.Get them to put that in writing or Libby is safe. Thank you.I would think a Health Emergency would END ANY MORE HUMAN BEINGS BEING LIED TO THAT LIBBY IS SAFE...When will this Health Emergency be told to the people...ALL People...Baucus/Tester/Jackson/EPA/Mayor/County/Health Dept./etc etc.How bout protecting people first!!! DAMN IT!!! sorry Diane,I go off so easy after not guilty and Libby is safe and who the hell cares.Check it out for yourself then tell all who matter to you, and any one else.Thank you.
perquiaga 72 posts Jul 01, 2009 5:31 PM	Think about this: If EPA were to change their standards and begin removing ALL the contamination that could be found, as opposed to "Containing" the contamination, the end result would be less cost for medical care as a result of less Asbestos Related Desease(ARD), less cost associated with institutional controls, and less Operations and Maintenance(O&M)cost. This would bring the long term cost of the cleanup down and take the long term burden off the property owners and TAX PAYERS. The real question is: Who benefits from inadequate "containment"? The Health Care Organizations of course! We could ask more questions: Who benefits from Institutional Controls? Who benefits from a higher number of responses through Operations and Maintenance? By answering these questions we begin to understand who the adversaries are when advocating a a "cleanup" as opposed to a "containment"! JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT! ---------- Phillip Erquiaga EaglesVoice.com 82 Cedar Street Extension Libby, Montana 59923 406-293-2393 perquiaga@eaglesvoice.com
Anonymous Guest Jul 01, 2009 10:09 PM	Containment means to be re exposed at a later date sooner or later.End result deadly exposure.To do away with it properly and legally is to clean it up for good.Libby don't need no band aid because those we leave behind will have enough to deal with and endure from what we leave them already.Again Phillip and all, unless the trees and the river banks and the mine site and the schools and the inside of homes and the animal study and health care by Card and another 10 years of the same ol thing and millions spent and then what??? Will any one be any safer? Will Libby be any cleaner? And will all those new to Libby leave Libby with a death sentence??? You know something Phillip,if all those Millions, wouldn't it be wiser and cheaper to rebuild Libby some where else like Happys Inn area or Bull Lake area.Don't say it can't be done.It just needs to be done.For all the right reasons that you know and I know and all of Libby know...well most anyhow.Anyway Phillip,I see all this as a continued feeding of a dead horse when the people sick and dying are big business and no one cares.With the so called Health Emergency for Libby,still no freeze on new people moving to Libby? Can you tell me why is that? And is Libby still being sold as safe? If not why not? Take care my friend.Check out KXLY channel 4 out of Spokane.Testing yards for asbestos.No# 2 Health Emergency.238 more to go.What a nitemare huh!!
xcav8 12 posts Jul 09, 2009 5:39 AM	Hey All; I am still trying to get information on the breach of the cap at Riverfront Park on 6-26-09 but will tell you what I have found out. It is pertinent to this discussion in that the cap at this site was breached...again, and EPA put a bandaid on it that left pathways of exposure in a public park. On the morning of 6-26-09 one of the contractors using the water filling station at the park fell asleep and overfilled his truck. This is the station EPA contractors use to fill their water trucks for cleanup activities,it puts out about 200 gallons per minute. While the driver was sleeping, 200 gallons/min flowed down the boatramp and washed tons of material into the Kootenai River. There were chasms two feet deep in the boatramp. This exposed a bunch of magic orange fence. EPA had laid this fence down and covered it with 6 inches of gravel. The orange fence was laid to let you know you had breached the official EPA remedy. Everything below the fence was contaminated. Vermiculite boiled up out of the ground and flowed down the entire ramp. This caused cross contamination of all of the existing soils in that ramp. If EPA really is closing pathways of exposure in Libby, they would remove the contaminated soil down to the magic fence, and replace it with clean cover. They didn't do that. They spread gravel in the chasms and left the cross contamination for people who use this park to play in. I'm losing faith that these clowns are ever going to protect human health. DC Orr